Meat eater argument


I get the usual arguments about lack of protein, top of the food chain, meat tastes nice etc.

But one that has me flummoxed is this one:

“Many more creatures are destroyed and ecosystems wiped out in the growing of crops (both veg and pulses etc) than creatures farmed for food.”

Now, I pointed out that the majority of crops grown are not grown for human consumption at all, but for the animals that are then killed for humans to eat and also for bio fuels.

Their response:

“Well the creatures killed growing crops still outweighs the farmed animals by millions to one, ok they are smaller but they are still creatures, you also have to think that when they are murdered by pesticides etc their bodies are returned to the earth and the goodness (and a % of the pesticides) are turned into the crops that they were destroyed for. So one way or another we all eat the planets creatures”

This is their justification for carrying on eating meat!

So, how would you deal with this argument, that being vegan means that we also are part of the killing of animals that are field living creatures…

Their response is most likely based off of Steven Davis’ “Omnivorous Proposal”.

If you would like to have a read, you can google “gaverick matheny least harm” and you should see a pdf link of a rebuttal of the argument that omnivores are doing less harm than vegetarians/vegans.

“First, Davis makes a mathematical error in using total
rather than per capita estimates of animals killed; second, he focuses on
the number of animals killed in ruminant and crop production systems
and ignores important considerations about the welfare of animals under
both systems; and third, he does not consider the number of animals who
are prevented from existing under the two systems. After correcting for

I would like to point out that not all vegans eat only mass manufactured fruits and vegetables. There are a number of vegans who mainly eat organic or local produce from small farms or local gardens, which is not taken into consideration in the proposal.

To me this argument is equivalent to:
“Since cats are anyway killed in car accidents regularly - it’s ok to go and burn some for fun.”
With this kind of logic one can justify any horrible deed. It’s a type of whataboutism.

Here is a nice video by Mic the Vegan on a very similar topic:
Are avocados vegan?